Friday, March 06, 2009

Metaphysical Naturalism

The only thing worse then trying to tell people that you are a Secular Humanist is trying to tell people that you are a metaphysical naturalist.

WTF? Metaphysical Naturalist?

Its almost as if someone where just trying to make big words to sound smart. But metaphysical naturalism is a real thing, and it happens to describe a huge part of my worldview.

When you tell others that you are a metaphysical naturalist, the word that dominates their thoughts is nature. Particularly thoughts of camping, hiking, and Walden Pond. Or worse yet; nudist colonies.

This is slightly off target.

Perhaps for this reason when people ask me about my naturalism I tell them that as a naturalist I am intrigued by the loveliness of nuclear waste.

When a naturalist discusses nature he discusses the natural world as it is determined by scientific examination. When a naturalist discusses nature its not usually to contrast forests with cities, as culture has programmed us. To the naturalist the city is a perfectly comfortable manifestation of nature.

It is not the fault of the public that the definition of metaphysical naturalism is not well known.

It is however high time that we discussed naturalism enough for people to at least know what it is.

Naturalism is the idea that what we know comes from empirical study of nature. The scientific method is known as methodological naturalism. Quite simply, naturalism at its basis is science. Metaphysical naturalism is built on the cornerstone of methodological naturalism. It is the bloom on the root of the scientific method.

What me know must come from science says the naturalist. But when we begin to ask "what should we do with what we know?" that the task of the metaphysical naturalist.

Metaphysical claims are notions about how things should be, ethics, love, freedom. Out of professional courtesy and discipline scientist do not make metaphysical claims in the name of science. Metaphysical naturalists do.

The naturalist asks, "If this be true in nature what does it mean for humanity?"

One example is the thoughts of John Dewey on free will. Naturalists tend to reject notions of free will as something that exists beyond nature. Christianity, for example, teaches us that our will is something that transcends this mortal coil and reaches beyond from a spiritual realm. Naturalist reject this by pointing out that everything we chose to do we chose as a result of causes. John Dewey argued that we should think of habits as free will.

In short, naturalist answer questions on the nature of free will by illustrating the evidence that this universe is governed by causes. This is a principle known in physics and chemistry and by the metaphysical naturalists: thought of in the context of human choice.

Metaphysical naturalism has many champions: Betrand Russel, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, Paul Kurtz, Pat Churchland, Victor Stenger, Richard Carrier, and Susan Blackmore (who's punk rock antics endear me).

Naturalism is the philosophy behind respectful atheism. Those atheists we all love for their beautiful words would happily admit that they are naturalist. It is just harder to sell books on naturalism; remember the whole nudist colony/Walden Pond problem.

Labels:

10 Comments:

Blogger Zarathustra said...

Good post. There's something you didn't address though, which I wish you had. Much as many words have come to mean, colloquially, something other than their original definition, the notion of something being "metaphysical" is thought of by many people today as synonymous with "supernatural." It seems like colloquial language barriers such as these are problematic for those of us who, beyond looking to challenge religious traditionalism, also see a real need to challenge non-traditional belief systems such as New Age beliefs or conspiracy theories. At the rate that people (young people, especially) soak up bullshit and sophistry like sponges, the decline of religious traditionalism is not exactly a measure of the triumph of skepticism. Of course, this is probably related in some way to the near-ubiquity of postmodern sophistry in contemporary western culture.

4:39 PM  
Blogger Rodrigo said...

I figured if "metaphysical" was good enough for Richard Carrier it would be okay for me.

But I do know what you mean.
Metaphysical is often used as a word for occult, or supernatural.

One hopes that naturalism may some day change that.

4:48 PM  
Blogger Ben said...

This post reminded me of studying Shaftesbury and his views on technology. Specifically, I found fascinating that he considered technology (man-made artifacts) as being an elaboration on nature, rather than something outside or apart from it. Of course, his intention was, in other words, to include technology in God's creation and lend a sort of piety to the scientific achievements of mankind. I think that apart from that divine extension, he was applying the naturalist point of view in a then very innovative sense which still can effect modern metaphysical naturalist thought in a positive way.

7:57 PM  
Blogger Ben said...

Post Scriptum:
I also wanted to point out that the last time I posited that a religious philosopher could offer genuine insight to modern secular thinkers, I was nearly snubbed out of the room. :]

7:59 PM  
Anonymous Zarathustra said...

I've never read Shaftesbury, but I agree with Ben and the OP, having come to the conclusion that nature/technology was a false dichotomy on my own some time ago. In regard to Ben's postscript, religious philosophers often have much to offer us modern, secular thinkers. Ben, have you ever read "Man's Search for Meaning" by Victor Frankl? He was a Jewish psychologist and a survivor of the death camps who wrote on existentialism and logotherapy.

8:04 PM  
Blogger Rodrigo said...

Once people really start to think about human endeavour as an extension of nature we can definitely get more work done.

I submit that quoting Shaftesbury is hard proof that my old pal Ben is smarter than me.

I cant handle reading that old stuff first hand. I need experts to translate it for me.

Anything before 1700 is painful for me to read.

4:22 AM  
Blogger Tom Clark said...

Thanks for Mindcore. Re naturalism, just an invite to check out the Center for Naturalism and Naturalism.Org at some point.

best,

Tom Clark
www.centerfornaturalism.org

5:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jay and Ray banned from Texas Fear Fest by the promoter, simply because they spoke the truth about John Gray's treatment to them.

It can all be heard here
http://www.deadpit.com/roadie2.html

2:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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texasfanworks
Pit Pig
Username: texasfanworks

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 04:15 am:

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So when is the new Fear Fest? And who all are you trying to get at the new one? Will it be Fear Fest 2 or 4? Anyone else's comments are fine with me.

James "Lil James" Windyka
Myspace: www.myspace.com/texasfanworks
Blog: platinumpremierinfo.wordpress.com
Our Message Forum: www.texasfanworks.com


crystal_lake_slasher
Long Live the Pit!
Username: crystal_lake_slasher

Post Number: 12881
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 04:35 pm:

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It's not Fear Fest 2, that was back in March (which rocked!) I think the next one is actually gonna be 3, John mentioned this recent one was an extra show... so the official Fear Fest 3 I would imagine is next..... just my thoughts
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TEAM DUFUS FOR PRESIDENT!!


camaro
Pit Citizen
Username: camaro

Post Number: 102
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 06:29 pm:

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I've been wondering though if it's still planned for Feburary? I'm really anxious to see what they have instore for us for sure!


boogeyman
Pit Soldier
Username: boogeyman

Post Number: 1599
Registered: 08-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 02:23 am:

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Updates soon I hope. Last I heard it was still in February and NOT a Lost Boys reunion as planned.
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It's all true, the Boogeyman is real and you found him!
www.myspace.com/lynnfelmet
Everybody hit my myspace page!!!!


candiss
Pit Pig
Username: candiss

Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 03:15 am:

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I hope it's still Lost Boys themed, we were planning to surprise my brother in law with tickets for an early graduation present if it was. Plus .. I also am a huge fan of the Lost Boys, it's my favorite movie of all time and have never been to a horror convention. Also, the last I heard was that they alredy had some guest confirmations for this event.
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"I'm going to reward you with 5 minutes of un-interupted eye contact"


boogeyman
Pit Soldier
Username: boogeyman

Post Number: 1601
Registered: 08-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 07:58 am:

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I believe that plan has changed but check with John to be certain. Sorry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all true, the Boogeyman is real and you found him!
www.myspace.com/lynnfelmet
Everybody hit my myspace page!!!!


john_gray
Hell's Jailor
Username: john_gray

Post Number: 17782
Registered: 05-2004


Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 03:39 pm:

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Well, we are in talks to shake things up a bit and make it something different from the "standard convention". I think one of the reasons most shows lateley have been poorly attended is due to the fact that everyone is sick and tired of going to a hotel to stand in long ass lines and pay through the nose for autographs. Curious to see what you guys think for what we have in store. So keep yer eyes peeled

Also, The Lost Boys show was fully planned, but it looks like another show in TX has snaked us on that idea. But it's all good... Lost Boys has been done, we will make sure to have the next show - Fear Fest 3.5 the best show yet!
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http://www.faithkills.com
http://www.pitofhorror.com
http://www.txfearfest.com


hybridflip
Pit Citizen
Username: hybridflip

Post Number: 228
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 05:01 pm:

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I'm interested in to see what you have in store John, I also sent you a PM.


boogeyman
Pit Soldier
Username: boogeyman

Post Number: 1602
Registered: 08-2007


Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 05:41 pm:

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What show snaked us? I'm curious.
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It's all true, the Boogeyman is real and you found him!
www.myspace.com/lynnfelmet
Everybody hit my myspace page!!!!


lostsoul
Pit Pig
Username: lostsoul

Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2008


Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 09:20 pm:

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I second that curiousity...I've heard nuthin' no where except for FearFest regarding a "Lost Boys" reunion.

Please...Do tell; because...If there's another camp out there: Who are they?

'Nuff Said!
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LostSoul: Fueled By Vengence; And, Powered By Space-Age Technology!!!


camaro
Pit Citizen
Username: camaro

Post Number: 103
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 09:37 pm:

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I'm curious as well which show in TX it is that is having a Lost Boys reunion? Does'nt look like it's the other Dallas show although they do have Tobe Hooper as being down for their next show.


texasfanworks
Pit Pig
Username: texasfanworks

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 01:38 am:

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I love all the autographs you can get but that is not everything to horror shows. To me I love seeing the people that are promoting there movies and items. Also love seeing all the vendors and there cool items they are selling.

Alot of my memory is watching Screens and seeing who wrote, directed and acted in the movies. I also loving making friends with the same love and passion of Horror Media (Movies, Toys, ect.)

What about everyone else?
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James "Lil James" Windyka
Myspace: www.myspace.com/texasfanworks
Blog: www.platinumpremierinfo.wordpress.com
Texas Fan Works Forum: www.texasfanworks.com


john_gray
Hell's Jailor
Username: john_gray

Post Number: 17784
Registered: 05-2004


Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 07:07 am:

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Not gonna start talking shit about the other show. I do feel they were trying to start something by posting the story on the forum... If it had been a random fan, that would have been one thing, but it was from one of the show partners. So, I will let that go... it is what it is.

Surprisingly, the other promoter and I actually agree about something. The silence between both shows has been golden and I for one hope it continues. Hats off to the other show and good luck with Tobe Hooper He should sign for all the people here that got stiffed (and remain stiffed) for those 200 autographs, so y'all make sure to remind him of that IF he shows. Kind of a slap in the face to the fans IMO, but again, it is what it is.
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http://www.faithkills.com
http://www.pitofhorror.com
http://www.txfearfest.com


hybridflip
Pit Citizen
Username: hybridflip

Post Number: 231
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 08:10 am:

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John, did you get my PM?


john_gray
Hell's Jailor
Username: john_gray

Post Number: 17785
Registered: 05-2004


Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 02:41 pm:

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Have not checked my email yet... I will though this afternoon and get back with you.
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http://www.faithkills.com
http://www.pitofhorror.com
http://www.txfearfest.com


hybridflip
Pit Citizen
Username: hybridflip

Post Number: 233
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 06:10 pm:

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Cool, thanks John.


texasfanworks
Pit Pig
Username: texasfanworks

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 10:07 pm:

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Hey John, I heard things but I just don't listen. I try not too. I like just having fun at this shows and meeting all type of people. So what is up with the next show? What are the dates? and how much will the vendor tables cost? let me know.

(Message edited by texasfanworks on November 21, 2008)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James "Lil James" Windyka
Myspace: www.myspace.com/texasfanworks
Blog: www.platinumpremierinfo.wordpress.com
Texas Fan Works Forum: www.texasfanworks.com


ericbischofffan
Pit Citizen
Username: ericbischofffan

Post Number: 164
Registered: 10-2005


Posted on Sunday, November 23, 2008 - 02:35 am:

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Are there still plans for a NEAR DARK reunion? I would fly to TX for that!!

Dominic


candiss
Pit Pig
Username: candiss

Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 02:05 am:

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Does anyone have the web site or any information on which show is having The Lost Boys theme, or even the city and location. We were originally going to go to the next Fear Fest because we heard it was Lost BOys themed and were going to take my brother in law as a surprise for graduation. If anyone has any info. It would be greatly appreciated. Thank You!

Candissg@aol.com
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"I'm going to reward you with 5 minutes of un-interupted eye contact"


camel1206
Pit Citizen
Username: camel1206

Post Number: 274
Registered: 10-2007


Posted on Friday, November 28, 2008 - 09:13 pm:

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The next Lost Boys themed show will be at HorrorHound in Indianapolis the last weekend in March. Haim will be there, well at least he will be there a few minutes. He does enjoy taking breaks. lol

They are due to make an update in the next few weeks with more guests. I don't think they will be getting Feldman, Gertz, Sutherland or any other "major" cast members. Just the ones that have already done a few shows recently.
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www.photobucket.com/homelesscamel

Death of one is a tragedy, death of millions is just a statistic.


camaro
Pit Citizen
Username: camaro

Post Number: 104
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 02:22 pm:

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Yep I saw that one as well! I've looked around but can't find the one in Texas they were talking about that is doing a Lost Boys show? I know for sure we can't make it to Indianapolis so hopefully they will be around here one day.


boogeyman
Pit Soldier
Username: boogeyman

Post Number: 1624
Registered: 08-2007


Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 08:25 pm:

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I would also like to know if there's gonna be one in Texas. Any info would could be cool John. Is it the other major con in town?
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It's all true, the Boogeyman is real and you found him!
www.myspace.com/lynnfelmet
Everybody hit my myspace page!!!!


sadie_mae_glutz
Pit Pig
Username: sadie_mae_glutz

Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 10:09 pm:

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i never got a refund for my fear fest ticket . it was not my fault the show was changed to another date very unprofessional


ericbischofffan
Pit Citizen
Username: ericbischofffan

Post Number: 165
Registered: 10-2005


Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 10:09 pm:

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Is the Near Dark reunion still on?? There have been 4 Lost Boys reunions in the past! I am ready for something new!!!!

Thanks
Dominic


camaro
Pit Citizen
Username: camaro

Post Number: 105
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 03:42 pm:

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There might have been 4 Lost Boys reunions in the past but not around this area! I know I was really looking forward to the Lost Boys show. Most of us can't afford to go to all the other horror cons in the country so are just thankful we have some here now. So basically I would'nt think it matters what a show in Florida or New Jersey is doing since the majority of us are only able to go to the local shows. That's like saying well Chiller had Linda Hamilton so we are'nt going to get her around here since it's been done!


boogeyman
Pit Soldier
Username: boogeyman

Post Number: 1626
Registered: 08-2007


Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 05:31 pm:

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I totally agree camaro. I would love a Lost Boys reunion.
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It's all true, the Boogeyman is real and you found him!
www.myspace.com/lynnfelmet
Everybody hit my myspace page!!!!


camel1206
Pit Citizen
Username: camel1206

Post Number: 276
Registered: 10-2007


Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 06:18 pm:

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The "OTHER" Texas show is not doing a Lost Boys reunion, not now or not anytime soon.

Their promoter was approached by Haim to do a show with the "regulars" from the cast that have already done a few shows. He declined, not because of a possible conflict with this show, he just didn't have an interest in it.

So unless another promotion decides to do it, there won't be any kind of Lost Boys reunion show in the Dallas area, anytime soon.

(Message edited by camel1206 on December 01, 2008)
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www.photobucket.com/homelesscamel

Death of one is a tragedy, death of millions is just a statistic.


camaro
Pit Citizen
Username: camaro

Post Number: 106
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Monday, December 01, 2008 - 08:59 pm:

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I did'nt think it was them. They seem to be going more Texas Chainsaw Massacrery so far. Have'nt seen anything or any mention of Lost Boys at that one.


joshuasfields
Pit Citizen
Username: joshuasfields

Post Number: 241
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2008 - 08:25 pm:

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Any information on the next actual Fear Fest would be great, no matter the theme.


camaro
Pit Citizen
Username: camaro

Post Number: 107
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 02:02 pm:

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Agreed! Is the next one still planned for Feburary? That would be about the best time around here to have it since not much else is going on at that time.


john_gray
Hell's Jailor
Username: john_gray

Post Number: 17792
Registered: 05-2004


Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 - 03:02 pm:

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Info coming soon, sorry for the lack of updates but we have been hard at work on shaking things up a bit.
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http://www.faithkills.com
http://www.pitofhorror.com
http://www.txfearfest.com


kissingtoast
Pit Fighter
Username: kissingtoast

Post Number: 687
Registered: 10-2007


Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 06:29 pm:

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Any updates???
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http://www.myspace.com/k_okla

"Everybody is a book of blood; Wherever we're opened, we're red."
~Clive Barker


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 10:28 pm:

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sadie_mae_glutz ..... i'm still waiting for my refund as well.
supposedly takes 6 weeks, but i've already been waiting like 8. ugh!

(Message edited by snow_white on December 15, 2008)


ericbischofffan
Pit Citizen
Username: ericbischofffan

Post Number: 166
Registered: 10-2005


Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 07:22 am:

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NEAR DARK reunion?? Is it going to happen John? Is Crispen Glover still booked for the next Fear Fest?? Any updates soon?


sadie_mae_glutz
Pit Pig
Username: sadie_mae_glutz

Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 11:25 am:

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snow white it's not just us. I faced the fact i'm not getting a refund. A sociopath never admits hes wrong it's not are fault the show was changed they also are very good liars and have superficial charm and use glib speech.


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 04:16 pm:

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I WANT MY REFUND JOHN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'VE WAITED LONG ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!


camaro
Pit Citizen
Username: camaro

Post Number: 108
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 04:20 pm:

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Still looking forward to some type of update as well. It's looking more and more like the Feburary show is'nt going to be happening since it's already half way through December and no dates or anything yet.


crystal_lake_slasher
Long Live the Pit!
Username: crystal_lake_slasher

Post Number: 13227
Registered: 05-2005


Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 05:32 pm:

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hang about, John isn't a liar by anymeans!! if he said you will get a refund you will
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TEAM DUFUS FOR PRESIDENT!!


boogeyman
Pit Soldier
Username: boogeyman

Post Number: 1658
Registered: 08-2007


Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 05:50 pm:

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John will get you your money folks. I know it's frustrating having to wait but John is not a liar so just chill please. And camaro, there is plenty of time for updates. February is still very possible.
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It's all true, the Boogeyman is real and you found him!
www.myspace.com/lynnfelmet
Everybody hit my myspace page!!!!


hybridflip
Pit Citizen
Username: hybridflip

Post Number: 259
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 05:59 pm:

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Stefan did you get your FF2 shirt yet?


camaro
Pit Citizen
Username: camaro

Post Number: 109
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 10:18 pm:

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Hey Boogeyman, yep it's possible I suppose but not looking very likely since we have to budget and make plans around the cons. Feburary would be a great time really since there is'nt anything else going on that month but guess we will just have to wait and see what they have instore.


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 10:19 pm:

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oh really boogeyman ... just like people are still waiting for their ff2 shirts, huh???


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 11:11 pm:

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wait ... i have a better idea, how about you boogerman send me my refund of $158.00 and then john will pay you back, lets see how patient you really are!!!!


jellybea57
Pit Pig
Username: jellybea57

Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 11:39 pm:

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Yeah, and I never got my refund yet either that I was promised back in October by John himself through email. I am still waiting for it and now he doesn't answer emails asking for the status when I write him. I have been very nice to him and understanding but now my patience is warring thin.

So John... what is the status on the refunds?


rabid
Pit Pig
Username: rabid

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 06:06 am:

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i want my refund im sick of your games john
you are a liar and a thief thats all i have to say


sadie_mae_glutz
Pit Pig
Username: sadie_mae_glutz

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 10:39 am:

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i'm out 79 dollars for the vip ticket. I could use that money during this tough time.

(Message edited by sadie_mae_glutz on December 17, 2008)


boogeyman
Pit Soldier
Username: boogeyman

Post Number: 1660
Registered: 08-2007


Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 11:38 am:

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No need to get nasty. I was just trying to keep the peace a little. Please don't take your frustration out on me.
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It's all true, the Boogeyman is real and you found him!
www.myspace.com/lynnfelmet
Everybody hit my myspace page!!!!


boogeyman
Pit Soldier
Username: boogeyman

Post Number: 1661
Registered: 08-2007


Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 11:39 am:

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Hi camaro. I agree, February would be nice. We can only hope.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all true, the Boogeyman is real and you found him!
www.myspace.com/lynnfelmet
Everybody hit my myspace page!!!!


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 03:53 pm:

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i agree sadie mae ... i can us the money as well, i have school to pay for AND boogerman if you're not waiting for a refund like the rest of us then mind your business, and maybe we wont have to get nasty.
}

(Message edited by snow_white on December 17, 2008)


boogeyman
Pit Soldier
Username: boogeyman

Post Number: 1662
Registered: 08-2007


Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 06:57 pm:

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I am also waiting but I'm using mine for Fear Fest 3. And I'll say whatever the fuck I want to say. John is my friend and he's going through alot with his dad being very ill and you guys are being foul. It's not necessary to start name calling and shit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all true, the Boogeyman is real and you found him!
www.myspace.com/lynnfelmet
Everybody hit my myspace page!!!!


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 07:10 pm:

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well there you go ... you're not waiting for a refund check like the rest of us, so blah! and if he's your friend then help him out with the refunds and we wont be so foul and shit.


punkplayin247
Pit Soldier
Username: punkplayin247

Post Number: 2274
Registered: 04-2007


Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 07:52 pm:

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you guys really need to relax a little..johns an honest guy and hes not trying to lie to anyone or skrew them outta theyre money or anything..hes got alot of crap going on right now and boogeyman is right, theres no need to be getting nasty about it. were all adults here so act like it..
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Now i lay me down to sleep, i pray the lord my soul to keep, those who knew me knew me well, those who didnt can go Fuck themselves..


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 7
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 08:35 pm:

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Well then he shouldn’t tell us that we’ll be getting our refunds in 6 weeks or back in October. he should have the common decency to let us know the status of our refunds when we request it and not ignore us. No matter what personal problems he has, he is still running a business and right now he’s being unprofessional. I’m sure we all have problems but we still get our shit done.


sadie_mae_glutz
Pit Pig
Username: sadie_mae_glutz

Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 10:54 pm:

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why was he abel to have a show in november and not in october if nothing has changed with his father


camaro
Pit Citizen
Username: camaro

Post Number: 110
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 02:03 am:

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The show in November was a last minute thing joining with another convention called Wizard. Wizard has 4 shows a year with Texas being it's smallest for some reason. The others are in LA, Chicago and Philadelpia I believe. If it worked out with them in Dallas it could mean some really big things for Fearfest so I think it was one of those too good to pass up deals for them even though it was a strain to have it I'm sure!


fulci
Pit Pig
Username: fulci

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 05:22 am:

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THIEF AND A LIAR THIEF AND A LIAR
YOU CANT RUN FROM THIS FOREVER Gray


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 01:45 pm:

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the point is he was still able to have a show and we want our money!


fisal316
Pit Fighter
Username: fisal316

Post Number: 839
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 02:16 pm:

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These new members should be banned off the forum.
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I BLEED JUST TO KNOW I'M ALIVE CAUSE I KNOW...

THE PIT IS FAMILY!!!


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 02:26 pm:

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ban me i dont give a fuck you fucking dick sucker!


fisal316
Pit Fighter
Username: fisal316

Post Number: 841
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 02:32 pm:

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Yeah go on act all tough. You think words scare me? I'm used to it fella, so don't go act all tough insulting me or anybody else on this forum cause you're not gonna win.

Regarding the refunds. John is a decent and busy man and i'm pretty sure he will sort out them out eventually.
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I BLEED JUST TO KNOW I'M ALIVE CAUSE I KNOW...

THE PIT IS FAMILY!!!


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 10
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 03:11 pm:

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bwahahahahha


fisal316
Pit Fighter
Username: fisal316

Post Number: 843
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 03:31 pm:

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What a Tool
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I BLEED JUST TO KNOW I'M ALIVE CAUSE I KNOW...

THE PIT IS FAMILY!!!


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 03:34 pm:

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a tool? ahahahahah oh man ahahahahha




fisal316
Pit Fighter
Username: fisal316

Post Number: 844
Registered: 11-2006


Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 03:36 pm:

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I BLEED JUST TO KNOW I'M ALIVE CAUSE I KNOW...

THE PIT IS FAMILY!!!


joshuasfields
Pit Citizen
Username: joshuasfields

Post Number: 252
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 07:14 pm:

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A moderator would be great, here.
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http://www.myspace.com/k_okla

"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you"
--Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)


snow_white
Pit Pig
Username: snow_white

Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 07:16 pm:

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sadie_mae_glutz and jellybea57 i contacted my local bbb and they told me to contact the credit card company that i used to purchase the tickets and dispute it with them. he also told me that since i used my bank card he'll get charged $50.00 for the dispute. so hurry up and do it!!!


whitetigeress
Pit Pig
Username: whitetigeress

Post Number: 38
Registered: 08-2008


Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 08:07 pm:

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Times are hard right now for everyone. Yes, John is a business man and her should live up to his obligations. I'm sure he will. When dealing with alot of companies, disputes can take about 90 days. It sounds like it is just reaching that point. Give John a little bit longer to respond. This is not his only business. From everything I have read about John he has never stiffed anyone from any money (it just has been a little later then they expected). There is no need to act like a child and call him names. That is childish. And yes, I'm sure that you will call me names now too. But I am only saying what I see is fair! 1. He will return your money but other places take longer then this sometimes and (2) calling names is not going to make him hurry it only shows that you are being an a$$.


sadie_mae_glutz
Pit Pig
Username: sadie_mae_glutz

Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:29 pm:

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i'll do it friday. i also used my bank card

2:48 PM  
Blogger david thurman said...

metaphysical naturalism is Christianity.
I'm sorry but christianity is metaphysical naturalism, regardless how you try and frame it or your own views they are identical in they require support of external observation as verification. I dare say, secularists and religious people are simply a believing or doubting Thomas arguing with each other. Ultimately it's an intellectual and evolutionary a dead end incapable of abstraction of any depth. A sort of human evolutis that eventually turns into a still born idea.
David Thurman

12:32 PM  

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